‘Who has prevented you?’ Samvel Babayan to Ruben Vardanyan

Whether it is Nikol Pashinyan or someone else, Artsakh does not belong to them to hand over. This was stated by the former Secretary of the Security Council of Artsakh and leader of the United Homeland party, Samvel Babayan, in an interview with ‘Aravot.’ Below is an excerpt from that interview.

As a military and political figure, what actions are you prepared to take if the current authorities of Armenia, led by Nikol Pashinyan, move into the practical phase of handing over Artsakh to Azerbaijan?

Firstly, whether it is Nikol Pashinyan or someone else, Artsakh does not belong to them to hand over. Secondly, Artsakh has gained its independence in accordance with all international and Soviet laws, and this is not up for discussion. I have said that Artsakh will be an independent and secure state, and we must pursue this by all means—engaging in negotiations with Azerbaijan, at international legal platforms, and security forums. Armenia and Artsakh should operate on a ‘one nation, two states’ principle like Turkey and Azerbaijan. In other words, Armenia ensures the social stability of Artsakh, while the rest is determined by Artsakh itself, with Armenia providing assistance. And all my efforts will be directed towards this.

In your recent interview with Artsakh Television, while discussing mutual confidence with Azerbaijan, you stated, ‘not everything can be expressed loudly, you understand what I mean.’ Frankly, my impression is that you are agreeing to live under Azerbaijan’s jurisdiction, and that the committee for mutual agreement will regulate this. You also openly state that prolonging the situation is not in favor of Azerbaijan. This impression is reinforced by your statement regarding the Kashen mine, where you mentioned that you see no difference whether the owner of the mine is English, Azerbaijani, or Turkish.

Firstly, you are distorting my statements. In the interview, I clearly stated that Artsakh should be free and independent. I then added that to avoid becoming a tool in someone else's hands, direct negotiations must begin with Azerbaijan to solve issues in our interest. Do not cut the term mutual confidence out of context and present it as integration; these are different matters. Regarding Kashen, you are also asking questions out of context or you have not paid attention to what I am saying.

I stated that Kashen is the property of Artsakh. The constitution should be changed to reflect that the subsoil belongs to the people, not the state. Then you take Kashen’s ore to Alaverdi, process it there, and export it. Azerbaijan has now closed the road and does not allow that ore to be taken out of Artsakh. I’ve suggested that to keep the economy running, we can either build a copper smelter locally, or they can build one, or make investments from outside, so the people can work, pay taxes to us, we can obtain the final product in Artsakh, and sell it to Azerbaijan. You also seem to forget that I said this is my viewpoint, which should be refined in cooperation with political forces and civic organizations, brought to its final form and then discussed with Azerbaijan.

Everyone, including you and Ruben Vardanyan, states that the issue is saving Artsakh. If that’s the case, why didn’t your cooperation with Ruben Vardanyan succeed? From the beginning, you expressed reservations about his coming to Artsakh.

As an individual and the leader of the second parliamentary force, I was prepared to support Ruben Vardanyan. After he was appointed Secretary of State, I met with him, and we agreed to work on a program. I have done my part, presented plans, and stated that the party will support you, but practically nothing was done on his part. I consider the reason to be that he could not operate freely from the people who have stood as his patrons in Artsakh. For example, he stated that he consulted with former presidents, aligning himself with them, and so forth. That gave them hopes of being re-elected. In my case, it is different—when I come, everyone will have to answer and return what they have stolen to our people.

In his recent interview, Ruben Vardanyan stated that he could not change anything in the management system because the president's and his approaches did not align. Now I say to him, who has prevented you from relying on our party to make all the reforms?