VIDEO. Strange Things You're Saying: Debate Between Torosyan and Avanesyan

"You say that children should be healthy, yes, they should be, yes, hospitals should pay salaries, but it is the government that has the non-restriction right in the budget, right?" stated the former Minister of Health and MP of the ruling party A. Torosyan while addressing current Minister of Health A. Avanesyan during a discussion in the National Assembly’s committee on the implementation of the 2023 budget on May 30.

“Provide the services for which you have the right of non-restriction as long as they are requested. Now, however many have applied, that’s how many have been provided. Shouldn’t you provide? Should you go into the budget lines, call all your familiar hospitals, understand how much the budget expense is in that line, divide it into four, and then understand the quarterly proportion before proceeding? Of course not! Or this should have been planned from the very beginning.

Now blaming hospitals for accumulating debts, I’m sorry, but it is neither fair nor just. The government has accumulated these debts, not the hospitals. The hospitals have provided the services that they were entitled to,” he said.

Torosyan continued, “When a citizen hears the government meeting, when the Prime Minister asks you whether the citizen will now be able to receive care at the desired health facility and they are not told there is no money, and the answer is yes, the ordinary citizen does not understand that this is the same hospital that served last year but had budget restrictions.”

In response, Avanesyan stated, “If we say the citizen is not restricted on where to receive medical assistance, based on that logic, we could assume that, for example, it’s permissible to receive care at an unlicensed organization because it’s convenient for them. But it’s not so; we are talking about general regulations and a general logic.

Yes, when the annual contract sum of a medical center exceeds, it does not mean that the annual amount of the general program has exceeded. We have never communicated such a thing. We are in contact with the healthcare facilities, and when dealing with any economic entity, it is assumed that they should know the procedures by which they operate. Nothing has changed this year. The offer has not been newly introduced. The amount of services provided under the offer in 2023 has been approximately 51 percent. The medical centers are aware of how the system operates. The budget regulations regarding funding proportions are clear, have not changed, and are identical to last year.”

Ruling party MP Narek Zeynalyan reminded that during Torosyan’s time, medical centers also exceeded the plan and did not receive full funding, to which Torosyan responded, “What does that have to do with it? They were told, 'Provide as many services as you want.' Such a thing was never said in our time.”

Avanesyan retorted, “We never said, 'Provide as many as you want.'” This elicited a smirk from Torosyan. “It’s written in the government decision, what a thing! This means that the healthcare facilities have access to the Ministry of Finance’s expense lines regarding how much has been spent, and when serving a patient, they must check if there is money left in that line before serving them. Otherwise, no?”