Azerbaijan has not recognized Artsakh as part of itself: Samvel Babayan

According to the "Hraparak" newspaper: "Following the trilateral meeting in Sochi on October 31, the joint statement released is the fourth statement signed by the three leaders, following those from November 9, 2021, January 11, November 26, and now October 31, 2022. This statement records the parties' 'commitment' to prior agreements and notes the need to 'make additional efforts aimed at the urgent resolution of remaining issues, including humanitarian block issues.' We spoke with Samvel Babayan, the former Secretary of the Security Council of Artsakh and former commander of the Defense Army.

- There were great expectations before the Sochi meeting, especially in Artsakh.
- First of all, I want to remind you that for two years I have been saying - do not have any expectations from any meeting, solve your problems yourselves, and you do not listen. When you say 'expectations,' whose expectations were those?
- The day before the meeting, a large rally took place in Artsakh. Calls were directed toward the Armenian authorities, and the rally was perceived as a demand to the Armenian government to accept the Russian version of the peace treaty, from which the Artsakh issue was not excluded.
- A massive rally was held, demonstrating that they will not be part of Azerbaijan, but what does that have to do with Sochi, I do not know. Azerbaijan has repeatedly said that this is my internal issue. You say that they demand the Armenian government to accept this or that version, but that is not the issue; the issue is that Azerbaijan accepts neither this side’s version nor that and continues to insist that the Artsakh issue is its internal matter.
- Then what negotiations are ongoing regarding the peace treaty? After all, the issue is not just within the domains of Armenia and Azerbaijan; there are larger players, mediators.
- No one today can act as a mediator and guarantee; it is an illusion, just as great powers have tried for 20 years to achieve peaceful resolution of the issue, but we saw how in 2020 Azerbaijan carried out aggression, and we have seen that to this day, people say that they solved their issues in 2020; the issue is closed for them, what more can they say for it to be understood?
- Now what do you propose? Should the Armenian side reconcile itself to Aliyev's desires and statements?
- No, our actions must be in the legal field; we need to prepare well to appeal to the international court, to try to obtain international mandate that this is not Azerbaijan's internal matter. Secondly, we need to try to prove through the court the truth of all the documents that exist. Simultaneously, return to strong self-defense, after all, any people has the right to self-defense. These are the two paths regarding the Artsakh issue; there is no third option; whether you want to have expectations or not, feel free to share them later, talk to each other, rejoice, but essentially, nothing will change from that.
- But why is the Washington version not acceptable for Azerbaijan, which does not actually include the issue of Artsakh’s resolution?
- The political leadership of Azerbaijan has repeatedly said that this is an internal issue of Karabakh; I will resolve this issue with a part of my people, whether it's the US variant or Russia’s; it does not exist for them; they do not accept it, do not discuss it. If in the peace treaty it is to be stated that Armenia recognizes Azerbaijan's territorial integrity and Artsakh as part of Azerbaijan, then Armenia cannot and does not have the right to decide on behalf of the people of Artsakh. You forget that Artsakh is an independent state and will determine for itself whether it is part of Azerbaijan or not. This is something we must understand; it must be clear to both the Americans and the Russians and the French that all is clear. Artsakh, like everyone else, adopted its independence declaration in 1991, becoming an independent state...
- Which the world has not recognized.
- Wait a minute, that is not Armenia's issue; if they want, let them recognize Azerbaijan's territorial integrity, with that, their rights end; when they say, ‘Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan,’ no one allows that; that is audacity.
- It’s audacity, but the Armenian authorities say that the world has long recognized Artsakh as part of Azerbaijan; can a government with such a stance reach the recognition of Artsakh through legal means?
- There are legal documents; whoever does not know and says that the world has recognized Artsakh as part of Azerbaijan should know history; Azerbaijan itself has not recognized Artsakh as part of its territory. In Azerbaijan's Declaration of Independence, it is stated that independent Azerbaijan was formed according to the borders of democratic Azerbaijan from 1918, while Artsakh was incorporated into Azerbaijan in 1921. In other words, Azerbaijan has not recognized Artsakh as part of itself; now, when you say, 'we recognize it, take your pain, Azerbaijanis,’ for what purpose are you saying this?... Yes, the UN has accepted this, and it has made a gross error because it is written in the UN charter that if conflicts develop within the territory of one state, neither NATO nor the UN has the right to internationally recognize that state; Azerbaijan has lost a number of agreements in joining the UN because it has violated all its obligations. That is why I say we must go the legal route.
- Do the authorities not know the way to this route that they are not taking it?
- Because they have been asleep for 30 years, they have not worked. Now I am specifically dealing with these issues; we are preparing a document; my experts are actively working to substantiate our arguments point by point and enter the international court.
- Do you think Azerbaijan will retreat from the legal process? They have no regard for mediations; they started a war.
- And do you think I am that naive? Wait and see."

For more details, refer to today’s issue of the newspaper.