After the War, I Wrote a Letter to Vladimir Putin: Armen Sarkissian

The President of the Republic of Armenia, Armen Sarkissian, has given an exclusive interview to Ilya Doronov, the general director of the Russian RБK television channel.

Ilya Doronov: Armen Vardanovich, thank you for agreeing to talk and for hosting us in Dilijan, which is a very beautiful city.

Armen Sarkissian: Is this your first time here?

Ilya Doronov: Yes, we have not been here before.

We meet at a time that, in essence, coincides with the anniversary of the end of the war, which occurred a year ago. What do you think, during this year, what lessons has Armenia learned from what happened?

Armen Sarkissian: It is hard to say what lessons have been learned, as time is needed for that; even one year is little. Any war brings tragedy, but it was a double tragedy because the coronavirus pandemic was spreading around the world. During such grand global tragedies, we—as human beings living on this planet—should cooperate more, talk to each other rather than fight. All this reminds me of Kipling's book about the jungle, when there is a fire in the jungle or a shortage of water; even the animals gather by the water source and do not fight.

All of this was indeed very tragic. We were parallelly losing mainly young lives. We can perhaps discuss real lessons maybe in 10 or 20 years, when the true history is written. One thing was clear: in that war, Armenia was not ahead of Azerbaijan; it was behind in the sense of military-technical readiness.

Ilya Doronov: This time you dealt with unmanned aerial vehicles.

Armen Sarkissian: When I say we were behind, I mean that we should have had our own UAVs because Azerbaijan mainly used Turkish and Israeli UAVs. Armenia should have been prepared for such a war, a war of the 21st century.

Ilya Doronov: Armenia was behind, but why did it fall behind? Was it because everyone was confident that they could win at any moment, recalling the 1990s?

Armen Sarkissian: That is a much more fundamental, serious question, because generally, today there is such a trend worldwide—we are pretending. We pretend like we are doing something, pretend we have democracy (I am not talking specifically about Armenia, but in general), pretend we have a very high level of science... However, the worst is when we start to believe in everything we have pretended. We reassure ourselves, and this is very dangerous.

Yes, in the first war, Armenia was the winner. And historically, what does it mean? 26 years have passed, and during that 26 years, it was possible and necessary to create a truly strong army, to strengthen our economy, to elevate the relations between Russia and Armenia to a completely different level. I am not saying those relations are bad, but I have always inspired in my life, even my children, my students, to go further.

Ilya Doronov: Is it clear what needs to be improved?

Armen Sarkissian: It is clear to me. First of all, we need to understand that Armenian-Russian relations are a special, separate topic. Let me explain this from a scientific perspective. Mathematical theories are built upon certain things. Primarily, they are built on axioms. If we consider Armenian-Russian relations in such a mathematical context, then that is an axiom. Those relations have existed for several centuries and do not need proof. Armenians lived in the Russian Empire, Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire. What remains of those Armenians who lived in the Russian Empire is the independent Republic of Armenia and Armenians who live very safely across the entire territory of the Russian Federation—from Kaliningrad to Vladivostok. For this reason, Armenian-Russian relations are axiomatic.

Relations with other countries are theories that need to be proven. The proof of those theories is related to time; those relations rise or fall, and each time it must be proven.

We can truly be happy with what we have. I am one of those who is not so happy with it and believe that the potential for the development of real, everyday, economic, political, and military-political relations is very great—despite your saying that Russia is a huge country, and Armenia is small.

Ilya Doronov: You say that the world is changing. What is it becoming?

Armen Sarkissian: The world has become very fast; everything is changing very quickly. For many, it has become unpredictable. The world has become incomprehensible; many international organizations and laws that functioned before today do not work. For many, the world has become not only unpredictable but also a feeling of danger has increased. The world has not only become unpredictable but also very rapidly changing.

Ilya Doronov: Have you not thought about the fact that we have lived this long, and now we have reached a moment when everything we have lived by is left in the past?

Armen Sarkissian: We have not noticed those changes. I started thinking about this in 2001-2002 when I declared in Davos that the world is changing. For the first time, I spoke about how the world has become quantum. I said that this is not the classical world we lived in before. At that time, everyone was talking about the new industrial revolution, and now we are living in a period I call not the 4th or 5th industrial revolution, but R-evolution, that is, rapid evolution. We live in a time when evolution happens every day. Look how fast information technologies are developing, how much information we are collecting. All of this is growing exponentially.

Ilya Doronov: When I was preparing for the interview, I wrote a question, and it turned out that I also thought about it at the time you were debating with Romano Prodi. Do you not think that Armenia is approaching what they call a “failed state” status? Romano Prodi was precisely talking about that, that small countries, states, should soon determine who they are with and become part of other states?

Armen Sarkissian: You rightly noted that I had a friendly debate with him. I completely disagree with him and with your wording. The opposite is true. What happened after the war... You are not the first to say that Armenia is a failed country; it is ungovernable. That was understandable since the first days; it was unclear, there was confusion, everything reached a point where the Chief of Staff began to publish some thoughts, I entered that structure for the first time in three years of my presidency (I am a parliamentary republic president and, of course, I do not command the army, but I had to go there), and I had a serious conversation with the generals. I cannot, of course, present details from that meeting. This means it was necessary to overcome such crises.

However, on the other hand, I have declared from the very first day that the solution to that difficult moment must be found through elections. My proposal was very simple: first of all, we need to have a professional government that would not support any force, and secondly, we must work towards amending the Constitution.

Ilya Doronov: Yes, we spoke about that in March.

Armen Sarkissian: Constitutional amendments do not imply transitioning from one unbalanced parliamentary system to another unbalanced presidential one. No. If we want parliamentary governance, then the governance must be balanced.

Ilya Doronov: As far as I understand, the constitutional question is not a priority. I recently spoke with the speaker of parliament, and he said it is something they will think about...

Armen Sarkissian: Allow me to finish. There will be no fundamental difference if we replace one unbalanced system with another unbalanced one. I would prefer to return to the presidential system for a very simple reason; our society has lived in the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, has had three presidents, and it is quite difficult for it to understand the concepts of parliamentary governance.

However, in any case, whether it is presidential or parliamentary, it is very important to have a balance in governance. When I talk about amending the Constitution, I do not mean myself in any case. If we decide to change the Constitution in any case, then it will come into effect when the next president is elected. If we make such a decision and adopt a new Constitution, I am ready to resign immediately to show people that it is not for me or my power, but for it to be easier and better for our country, and that when there are difficult times in the country, it is very clear who bears responsibility and who makes decisions.

We had elections; we did not change the Constitution. I had discussions on the topic of elections with the prime minister and opposition parties, and these took place. And what happened after the elections? The tension in the streets sharply decreased. However, there is now tension between parliamentarians. It is normal that there is tension in parliament, but it is not normal when it was in the streets. For me, as the president of the country, it is very important that there should be no tension in the streets, that there should be no tension between the army and politicians. For me, as president, it is very important that the streets are calm and stable. Today, the streets in Yerevan are calm and stable. Will this tranquility continue permanently? No.

Ilya Doronov: No, because Robert Kocharian has announced that there will be protests starting next week.

Armen Sarkissian: Robert Kocharian has announced... You know what, announcing is one thing, street protests... There have been elections, here are the results. The ruling political force, the party is in parliament; they can also work there... In any case, the tension has sharply decreased.

Ilya Doronov: So, after these parliamentary elections, for you, the important thing is that the tension has decreased?

Armen Sarkissian: Yes, the tension has decreased. There are specific things. The people have given a mandate to the government to solve problems—those related to the economy, statistics, taxes, and everything else. Our young men are still in Azerbaijan. This is completely abnormal. There are issues with demarcation, questions related to the future relations of Armenia and Azerbaijan. These are questions that the government must solve. The people have given them a mandate.

Ilya Doronov: Why, a year later, are the prisoners still remaining in Azerbaijan?

Armen Sarkissian: That question should not be directed at me.

Ilya Doronov: Yes, I understand...

Armen Sarkissian: That question should primarily be directed at Azerbaijan. I remember that in 1994, after the first war, all the prisoners of war who were in Armenia, in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh were returned to Azerbaijan. Why has Azerbaijan decided today not to return them and to judge, to stage performances, to use human lives for resolving certain issues? That question must be asked primarily to Azerbaijan, that question is not about Armenian-Azerbaijani relations but exists at the level of human relations because even during great wars, the parties exchange prisoners.

This question is also within the realm of the international community. As president, I have appealed on the issue of the return of prisoners to the UN, the EU, NATO, to everyone. And why is there no result? There are probably several reasons. The first is that possibly international organizations are not as effective as they were 30 years ago; they are not as respected as they were 30 years ago. But talking about the future of the UN, NATO, and other international organizations is another topic. The second reason could be that Azerbaijan ignores international organizations.

Ilya Doronov: Can Russia help?

Armen Sarkissian: Russia can always help in any issues.

Ilya Doronov: A year ago, we talked about Turkey, that it is coming to the region again, supports Azerbaijan a lot. A year later, what trends do you see?

Armen Sarkissian: Has Turkey calmed down? I cannot make such a diagnosis. Essentially, nothing has changed in Turkey's strategy because the South Caucasian war was not the only one connected to Turkey. It is part of a larger regional, global policy. Let's remember where Turkey is and why it entered Libya, why it is so active in Iraq, why it is in Lebanon today, in the east, or why it has settled in Syria, why it provokes Cyprus and Greece in the Mediterranean, and why it keeps thousands of refugees at the border of the European Union. In this sense, Europe is a hostage of Turkey because if those thousands of refugees enter Europe, it will be very difficult to talk about stability in Europe.

Ilya Doronov: Does Turkey have the right to feel slighted, as it has been denied entry to the European Union for decades?

Armen Sarkissian: I do not agree with you because to feel slighted one must be sure that they made the right offer. Entering the European Union is like entering a marriage or a family. But was Turkey ready to enter that family? Our war with Turkey was a continuation of Turkey's overall policy to become more influential in the region. Whether we want it or not, Turkey has become more influential in the South Caucasus. Economically, Turkey is very influential in Georgia. Today Turkey has entered Azerbaijan at a great pace. It is understandable the influence of Turkish armed forces on Azerbaijani armed forces after such a war; they had a great impact on Azerbaijan's sovereignty, they influence Azerbaijan's economy, and accordingly its logistics and transportation means—including oil pipelines that go from Baku to Tbilisi and Ceyhan. Turkey has become more influential in military-political terms. On the other hand, the Turkish economy is not one of the best in the world. As is known, many investment companies are leaving Turkey. The economic decline is compensated by a large activity.

Ilya Doronov: Let me ask about Iran. A year ago, we were not hearing about this country, and today it has begun to play a significant role. Armenia has good relations with Iran, which have become closer than a year ago. What is that related to?

Armen Sarkissian: First, I want to disagree with you once again. The relations between Iran and Armenia have always been good. That country's government has also financially supported the preservation of Armenian spiritual and cultural centers, unlike Turkey. And to say that our relations have gotten better...

Ilya Doronov: In any case, there is an impression that after this war, those relations have become closer.

Armen Sarkissian: Iran is our neighbor. What happened in southern Armenia during the war has a direct connection with Iran. That area borders Iran, and it would be surprising if Iran did not say anything about it.

Ilya Doronov: I think Iran is also very concerned about Turkey's presence.

Armen Sarkissian: Iran can be concerned about many things, so it is their right to express their opinion, and we must listen to that. God willing, other players in the region will also hear that opinion. The question is that many began to speak after the war that during the war it was very difficult to gain international support from various organizations, states that would actively start advocating for the concept of stopping the war. Of course, there were countries that were very friendly, like France, which was concerned and showed it. But in terms of active engagement, I cannot say the same about other European countries. And after the war, everyone began to speak actively.

Ilya Doronov: Regarding historical facts: you probably heard President Putin's statement at the Valdai Club, where he said that we should look at the General Staff maps from the 1920s that exist in Russia and delimit the territories based on that. Do you have any assessment of that statement? Do you agree with that statement?

Armen Sarkissian: After the war, I wrote a letter to Vladimir Putin because I knew that those maps are kept in the Russian Federation. Of course, I do not know exactly where.

Ilya Doronov: He said they are at the General Staff.

Armen Sarkissian: Then they are at the General Staff. From the very first day of stopping the war, major problems emerged. These were mainly associated with the villages that were near those operations. They were connected with companies that were also on that line, including companies whose owners are Russian citizens. They were mining companies, and now it is unclear whether the mines are on the right or left side. At that moment, I wrote a letter to Vladimir Putin stating that the maps are preserved. While Azerbaijan is using some Google map. I know mathematics and programming; I can draw in such a way that a map of Dilijan appears on Google that goes where you want it to go. These are virtual maps.

We have a history, a common history—in the Russian Empire, in the Soviet Union. This issue was dealt with even during Soviet times. If I am not mistaken, starting from 1984, a special commission was created that was bilateral—Moscow and two other sides at the level of deputy prime ministers. At that time, they were called deputies of the chairmen of the Armenian SSR and Azerbaijani SSR governments. If I am not mistaken, that commission worked for 4-5 years. I think some things were signed there. Of course, there was no final document. Those documents are also kept somewhere in Moscow.

It is clear that this issue cannot be resolved without Russia.

Ilya Doronov: I wanted to ask that—is it possible to resolve the Armenian-Azerbaijani issue without the involvement of Russia? Is it possible for Armenia and Azerbaijan to come to terms on their own?

The question is abstract. In real life, before coming to an agreement, there are small but very important questions for the parties. For us, Armenians, this is primarily the return of the prisoners of war. If Azerbaijan takes that step and returns the young men to their families... You know, this is a very heavy question; I meet with those families. Every family is a separate drama. Moreover, I meet not only with the families of the prisoners of war but also those of the missing; they live on the borderline between hell and paradise. One day it is paradise, the next day it is hell. In Baku, there are judicial processes going on, they see their husbands or sons in those videos... Now there is a format, negotiations are ongoing. My request and proposal remain the same: return the boys home.

Ilya Doronov: Have you written a letter to Aliyev?

Armen Sarkissian: We do not have channels for writing letters to each other.

Ilya Doronov: But if perhaps Ilham Heydarovich agrees...

Armen Sarkissian: Ilham Heydarovich may be watching your program. And I have appealed to all possible forums.

Ilya Doronov: Then I will ask the last question on this topic. We met in March, now it’s already October. What are the main issues facing Armenia now?

Armen Sarkissian: The main issues are the return of prisoners of war, the fate of the missing. Peace where there is no peace—on the border, at the contact line between Armenian and Azerbaijani armed forces. To have peace, the ceasefire must be maintained. Again, I thank Vladimir Putin and Russia for their efforts that made the ceasefire possible. Ceasefires are important—just as they were in 1994 and now.

Ilya Doronov: And what about domestic issues in Armenia?

Armen Sarkissian: Our society lives daily with problems related to borders and the situation of prisoners of war. These keep society in tension. However, my approach has always been the following: to solve today’s issues, it is necessary to work for the future. To solve today’s problems, we must come from the future, look towards the future, work for the future. It is important to build the future, and that future in Armenia is connected with various things. Naturally, it is connected with the economy. It is necessary to build an economy based on new technologies—from artificial intelligence to biotechnologies, new agriculture, new food sector, a new healthcare system. We are already in the 21st century. If we live as we did in the last century, Armenia will become the last car of a train.

The second is that it is important that the structure of the state—from the Constitution onwards—is modern. It is very important that the mechanisms of decision-making are modern. This is why I say we need to change the Constitution. Our problems did not start or end with the war; they are ahead, and mechanisms are needed so that those who bear responsibility take effective decisions that will be brought to life. If the governance system is not effective, any decision that may seem true will remain only on paper. Therefore, we must change the Constitution.

Ilya Doronov: Is there a perception in Armenia of where the country should reach?

Armen Sarkissian: The President of Armenia has a perception that he is trying to share. For this very purpose, we are already organizing the