If NATO Cannot Manage Turkey, Its Activity Will Not End with Artsakh: President

The President of Armenia, Armen Sarkissian, gave an interview to Ukraine 24 television, during which he also addressed Turkey's role in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Below are several queries related to Turkey in the context of the conflict.

Ukraine 24: Speaking of Turkey, there is a hypothesis that the initiator of this military attack is, in fact, Turkey. Do you agree with this viewpoint, and how long do you think these military operations have been planned? The timing was chosen intentionally as tensions began in late September during the surge of the coronavirus pandemic, coinciding with a heated presidential campaign in the U.S.

President: You have already answered your own question. I agree with you. The assumption that Turkey was the initiator is evident in the relationship between the leadership of Azerbaijan and Turkey, which has a long history. Turkey's interest is simply obvious.

The history of Nagorno-Karabakh is unfortunately not the only place where Turkey has created instability, and it does everything to destroy all possible status quos. Turkey is creating centers of instability around itself. First, they were in Egypt, then they went to Libya, and later Iraq. They talk about Azerbaijan's territorial integrity, but they themselves invaded Iraq. No one paid attention to Iraq's territorial integrity there. The same happened in Syria—Turkey disregarded Syria's territorial integrity and found an opportunity to intervene. Today, they are fighting for Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity. This is very strange.

Turkey creates instability in the Eastern Mediterranean, is in conflict with Greece and Cyprus. In other words, it creates instability everywhere. Turkey's ambition to be a major regional player is for everyone to recognize its importance. In the case of Azerbaijan, Turkey has several motives. First and foremost, Turkey wants to show its little brother Azerbaijan that you cannot solve this issue on your own; I will solve it for you. Of course, any such service comes at a price. The cost is that Turkey currently has immense influence over Azerbaijan, and it is likely that it will remain there. In that case, it will have control over energy sources, pipelines that go from the Caspian Sea through Central Asia to Europe, meaning Europe will, in some sense, become a hostage.

The third issue is the refugees. There are 4 million refugees in Turkey, mainly from Syria. Turkey is one of the creators of the Syrian crisis. Turkey created the refugee crisis. These refugees today are a major bargaining chip for Turkey to exert influence over Europe. Four million refugees are standing at Europe’s doorstep, and, in essence, Europe pays huge sums to keep them in Turkey. It has paid 6 billion euros, and with that money, these refugees should be living well, but that is not the case. Additionally, there are terrorists brought by Turkey to Azerbaijan.

Yes, Turkey has its game, and every time the sides agree on a cease-fire, a party emerges that says no. That is clearly not the Armenian side.

Ukraine 24: Mr. President, the leaders of Turkey and Azerbaijan are making statements regarding a possible military solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh issue. How do you interpret such positions, and does Yerevan see the development of options for a military solution today?

President: You know, the same thing was said 30 years ago during the first war. At first, Azerbaijan had the advantage, and everyone said they would solve this issue militarily. But then everything turned out quite the opposite, and it all ended in a ceasefire, leading to negotiations. I approach such statements with skepticism because there are no military solutions in the world. Look at all of history, at European history, at your Ukrainian history. There have never been definitive solutions based on military outcomes. There has always been a need to sit at the negotiating table and come to an agreement about the future.

The people of Nagorno-Karabakh have lived there for several thousand years; they have seen much more aggressive 'conquerors' from the Mongols to Seljuk Turks and others. There is no military solution. There is only a negotiation solution when the sides sit at the table and sign certain documents and then try to implement them. Neither Azerbaijan nor Nagorno-Karabakh will disappear from this planet.

I can bring a very simple example, which I often cite. 105 years ago, the same Turkey, in the form of the Ottoman Empire, decided to rid Western Armenia of Armenians. That was the Armenian Genocide, ethnic cleansing. Armenians were expelled from lands where they had lived for thousands of years, at a time when the Turks were not even present. This ethnic cleansing resulted in the genocide of Armenians. And what happened? Did all this end? No, it did not end because, despite more than 100 years passing, Armenians everywhere and always remember it. They are not the same Armenians who survived the genocide; they are their grandchildren and descendants, yet it is not forgotten. Today, Armenians worldwide are fighting for recognition of the Genocide, and many countries have already recognized it, from the U.S. Senate to France, Germany's parliament, the Russian Federation, and others. Therefore, this struggle will continue. Even if they (Azerbaijan and Turkey) dream that they can solve this issue through military means, one must remember that wars end at the negotiating table. And that negotiating table already exists, which is very representative. Over the years, Armenians have not built shelters or military bases; on the contrary, they built roads and hospitals. Armenians have lived with the dream that they will live in peace. Yet Azerbaijan has decided to destroy all that.

Ukraine 24: You mentioned correctly that every war eventually ends in peace. Based on this, why should so many human lives be lost? A few days ago, you met in Brussels with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and discussed the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh. How does the Secretary General explain NATO member Turkey's position and actions?

President: As to how he explained this during our closed discussions, unfortunately, I cannot disclose that. However, you can be assured that I raised these sharp questions, for I find it incomprehensible not only as a president but also as someone who knows what NATO is. I was the first ambassador of Armenia to NATO. It is incomprehensible to me how a member country of NATO can utilize NATO weapons. The weapons used by Turkey in Nagorno-Karabakh or given to Azerbaijan are NATO's. The same Bayraktar UAVs, despite being Turkish, have Austrian engines, aviation systems from Canada, and artillery control systems from Great Britain. These are NATO weapons. These weapons, the officers who have trained in NATO, the warfare tactics are from NATO, and all this is employed against Nagorno-Karabakh. Where is Nagorno-Karabakh, and where is NATO? I can say that I am satisfied with our negotiations because the issues were put forward very specifically, and I received answers that I more or less already knew. However, that conversation needed to happen. Yet pressures on NATO must continue.

Ukraine 24: Are you referring to pressure on Turkey?

President: Pressures on NATO to put pressure on Turkey. Otherwise, NATO, as an organization, cannot continue to manage one of its members, and its activity will not end with Nagorno-Karabakh. God knows where they might end up and what they might be involved in. Turkey's behavior essentially discredits NATO. I believe such behavior is an anachronism; it is outdated. Or Turkey's statement that a coalition or even an army of Turkic-speaking states must be created can be said to be a dinosaur from another era. Today is the 21st century. The world is no longer unipolar. In essence, many international organizations are not that effective. In this world, much is unstable and volatile. I even call it the quantum behavior of the new world. In a world governed by quantum behavior, such dinosaurs can be very dangerous because when Turkey speaks of its ethnic brothers, look at how far they reach. They reach Central Asia, China, Mongolia, Russia, Ukraine. Every time Turkey must use military technologies and equipment to help its brothers and sisters? This is a medieval approach.