Azerbaijan is No Longer the One Deciding Its Own Fate, Turkey Is Making Those Decisions - Pashinyan

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan has given an interview to the German weekly "Spiegel," which has also been published on the magazine's website. Below is a presentation of that interview.

Spiegel: Mr. Prime Minister, you have just returned from Artsakh. What is the situation there? What did you see in Stepanakert?

Nikol Pashinyan: I saw a city under rocket fire and residential buildings and civilian infrastructure targeted by missiles. And I think that when Azerbaijanis strike, they know that they are hitting residential buildings, civilian infrastructure, schools, and kindergartens. But that does not stop them. And it is not surprising. Because it is now an internationally documented fact that international terrorist groups are participating in this war unleashed by Azerbaijan as allies of the Azerbaijani armed forces. And these representatives of international terrorist groups are being transported to Azerbaijan by Turkey. This completes the picture.

Spiegel: How did this war start for you personally?

Nikol Pashinyan: The President of the Republic of Artsakh called me and said that an attack had taken place. After that, I called our Armed Forces Chief of Staff to verify the information. And he confirmed the information. After that, we convened a meeting of the Security Council and declared martial law and mobilization in the country. Because we assessed, and subsequent events showed - not without reason - that there was also an immediate threat of attack on the Republic of Armenia. And we saw that in the following days, Armenian settlements were bombarded, and there were casualties among the civilian population. Hostile UAVs also appeared near Yerevan and surrounding cities.

Spiegel: There have been periodic clashes and skirmishes in Nagorno-Karabakh and along the Armenian-Azerbaijani border in 2016, 2018, and July 2020. However, this time, the clashes are more intense than we've seen for decades. Why?

Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, you are correct. Our military experts say that such a large-scale war, with such military force, equipment, and weaponry being used, has perhaps not happened anywhere in the 21st century or has happened, at least, not frequently. And this has one explanation - Turkey's involvement in the war.

Spiegel: Could you clarify?

Nikol Pashinyan: A century later, Turkey is returning to the South Caucasus to continue its genocidal policy against Armenians. You know that in 1915, during the Young Turk government in the Ottoman Empire, the first genocide of the 20th century took place, which resulted in the death of 1.5 million Armenians. But the purpose of this genocidal policy is not just emotions or hatred towards Armenians. The Armenians of the South Caucasus are the last obstacle in Turkey's path to pursuing an expansionist and imperialist policy. We must view this policy in the broader context of Turkey's policies in the Mediterranean region. And this policy includes terrorists and mercenaries. The international community, and especially Europe, must take this fact very seriously. If Europe does not do this, Turkey will be waiting with such expansionist policies near Vienna.

Spiegel: You are essentially claiming that Turkey does not care about Nagorno-Karabakh, but rather wants to create a corridor through Armenian territory.

Nikol Pashinyan: Yes. And we see the issue of Turkey swallowing the Azerbaijani state.

It is no longer Azerbaijan that decides its fate, but Turkey that makes those decisions.

Spiegel: The Azerbaijani army is moving forward mainly in the south, near the Iranian border. Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev almost daily announces the capture of settlements. Why not just let them have those villages? This territory is uninhabited, roughly speaking, it does not belong to Nagorno-Karabakh, but is a security zone established years ago by Armenians around the disputed territory.

Nikol Pashinyan: I think it is too early for Azerbaijan to make such statements. The Defense Army of Nagorno-Karabakh is conducting anti-terrorist operations, and it is as a result of those operations that we must see what is happening on the ground. The security zone was not established whimsically. It was about protecting the population of Nagorno-Karabakh and keeping potential bombers away from cities and villages. Today's operations show that the people of Nagorno-Karabakh, as they were, remain under existential threat posed by Azerbaijan.

Spiegel: Have you appealed to Russia for military assistance?

Nikol Pashinyan: Armenia and Russia are allies in the field of security and have certain contractual relations. And I am confident that, should appropriate situations arise, Russia will fulfill its contractual obligations towards Armenia.

Spiegel: What does that mean - when will it respond to an attack on Armenian territory?

Nikol Pashinyan: That presents a particular evaluation issue - the level, scale, and potential of the threat. We have contractual mechanisms. You know that the 102nd Russian military base is located in Armenia. The Russian border guards maintain the border with Turkey and Iran.

Spiegel: According to the Kremlin press service, Vladimir Putin has not even called the presidents of Azerbaijan and Turkey.

Nikol Pashinyan: I cannot, of course, comment on that, but it is not as if there are just purposeless calls taking place. The head of Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service officially recorded that representatives of international terrorist groups are fighting against Artsakh and Armenia by the means of Turkey and Azerbaijan. And Russia is certainly not the first country to speak or at least hint about it. This has been discussed by France and Iran. In a certain sense, this is a civilizational war, and Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh are actually on the front lines of this war. We are fighting against Turkey's expansionist policy and international terrorism.

Spiegel: Do you see a possibility for compromise, for example, the return of parts of the security zone's territories?

Nikol Pashinyan: I am not the one to return; the one to return is the government of Nagorno-Karabakh. But in that case, who will guarantee the safety of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh?