Nagorno-Karabakh Can Never Be and Will Never Be Part of Azerbaijan, as Proven by Azerbaijan's Actions, Says PM

In an interview with the Russian RBK television channel, which was also published on the channel's website, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan discussed the current situation in Nagorno-Karabakh.

RBK: You have returned from Nagorno-Karabakh. What is the situation like there now?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I was in Stepanakert, the capital of Nagorno-Karabakh. Stepanakert is under almost constant bombardment, and, of course, civilian residents are suffering there. This is beyond all limits. Do you understand? If Azerbaijan insists that Nagorno-Karabakh should be part of Azerbaijan, and if they truly think that the people of Nagorno-Karabakh and Azerbaijan can live side by side, then they are destroying their own cities. Let’s try to understand the thought process of Ilham Aliyev (the President of Azerbaijan - RBK). Does he think that by bombing Stepanakert, people from Nagorno-Karabakh will live in Azerbaijan? This approach once again underscores that Nagorno-Karabakh can never be and will never be part of Azerbaijan. This is already excluded. One hundred percent. And this is proven by Azerbaijan's actions.

RBK: Azerbaijan has recently announced successes on the battlefield, particularly the capture of several villages at the contact line. Is this true?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If we consider the information we are receiving since this morning, we can say that the intentions of the commanders from Nagorno-Karabakh have been realized: they have made tactical moves in the south, created a corridor, and cornered the Azerbaijani military corps. Literally at this moment, that corps is receiving crushing blows. And I believe this will be the key point of the entire operation. At this time, based on my information, the foundation for the final victory of the Nagorno-Karabakh army is being laid.

RBK: Why do you say that?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I say this because the Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenian military commanders had a plan to retreat in the direction of Jabrail and draw large forces of the Azerbaijani army into that area. Last night they entered there with large, very large forces, and this morning they are receiving crushing strikes; the operation is proceeding extremely successfully.

RBK: Are there any reports on Azerbaijani losses?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, there is information; there is already an official statement from the Armenian Ministry of Defense, and it is very important that a large number of Azerbaijani military equipment has entered there. Most of it has been destroyed or abandoned by fleeing Azerbaijanis. Therefore, I believe that today there will already be a significant amount of equipment with the Nagorno-Karabakh army.

RBK: A few days ago, there were reports of missile strikes towards Ganja. Is it possible that military operations may expand into Azerbaijani territory?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If today’s operations end as they have started, and I believe that's very likely, because the Nagorno-Karabakh army will not simply sit down and wait for the Azerbaijani forces to regroup after such success. And I think that if they succeed today, they will try to exploit that success.

RBK: So, are they planning to move into Azerbaijani territory?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I cannot speak for them. Those decisions are made by the commanders of Nagorno-Karabakh. I assess the overall situation.

RBK: The situation in our region and especially the presence of terrorists is being discussed.

RBK: Since the beginning of the conflict, you have had several phone conversations with Vladimir Putin. What is being discussed? Is there talk of delivering military equipment from Russia to Armenia?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Everything is being discussed. But the main theme that is being discussed is the situation in our region and especially the presence of terrorists in the South Caucasus. Because, you know, if only Nagorno-Karabakh is fighting with Azerbaijan or Armenia is fighting with Azerbaijan, that’s one situation. But if terrorists from specific terrorist groups are involved in the hostilities (incidentally, yesterday Russian officials mentioned specific terrorist organizations whose members are fighting in the conflict zone), it’s a completely different situation, it is not only an issue of Nagorno-Karabakh but also a broader issue of security in our region regarding the security of Russia and Iran. This is fundamentally a global security issue. Because it means that terrorists are expanding their range. In other words, it turns out that terrorists, with the help of Turkey and Azerbaijan, are finding new territories where they can operate. Let’s imagine that somehow this conflict ends, and afterwards, what will they do? Undoubtedly, some of those terrorists will remain in the region and will act there. We have information that these terrorists are already establishing their structures in some Azerbaijani villages. And this raises the question of how much the official authorities of Azerbaijan control the situation in their own country. Because if anywhere in any normal country terrorists are operating, the normal authority should work to eliminate them, rather than giving them the opportunity not only to operate freely but also to establish their structures.

RBK: In this changed context, have guarantees for Russian military intervention been given to Armenia?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Russia is a strategic ally of Armenia, and we have specific agreements regarding security. For example, we have joint air defense.

RBK: Is the air defense currently operational?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, of course.

RBK: And in combat operations?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, not in combat. I mean the territory of the Republic of Armenia. But if there is a threat in terms of air defense for the territory of Armenia, then our joint forces should be deployed. And this is provided for by our agreements, charters, and other documents.

RBK: But the terrorist threat, as you said, is in Nagorno-Karabakh, and the question is about the guarantee of Russian military intervention.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes. And that guarantee pertains to the territory of the Republic of Armenia.

RBK: Have those guarantees been reaffirmed during the last conversations with Moscow?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: You know, in the recent conversations, we have discussed those topics, but since all this is provided for by our agreements, there is no need to confirm this every time. This is an existing fact, and we’ve discussed some nuances in that area.

RBK: In any case, do you expect new deliveries of military equipment from Russia?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: As I have already said, Armenia and Russia are bound by allied relations, which include unbreakable components of military-technical cooperation.

RBK: Will there be new deliveries related to this conflict?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: That's a different question, which I cannot discuss publicly. Especially in this situation.

RBK: Do you agree that this conflict has set back the negotiation process by years, if not decades? Is it possible now to reach any compromise at all? Will Yerevan agree to cede some territories or some new arrangements?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I do not think it is appropriate to discuss that now. You asked if I think this war has set back the negotiation process by decades. I believe this war fundamentally changes the context of this entire conflict, the entire context. Because this is no longer the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. It is an anti-terrorist war being conducted by Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia. This is a terrorist attack against Nagorno-Karabakh initiated by Azerbaijan and organized by Turkey. This is already a threat not only to Nagorno-Karabakh but a direct threat to Russia as well. And the fact is that Russia also evaluates the situation in approximately this way. And if you follow the official statements from Moscow in recent days, it is evident that Russia, if not 100%, then approximately 80% perceives this situation in the same way.

RBK: So, can the war only end in the unconditional surrender of Azerbaijan?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, the war can end only with the unconditional surrender of the terrorist groups. Because Armenia and Karabakh do not have goals of unconditional surrender for Azerbaijan. Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia aim to achieve the unconditional surrender of the terrorist groups operating in the conflict zone.

RBK: But that doesn’t resolve the issues between Yerevan and Baku.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Of course. I have already stated that their presence and Turkey's presence in the region changes the context. Why is Turkey returning to the South Caucasus after 100 years? For two reasons. The first is to continue the policy of the Armenian Genocide. Do you understand that if things do not go right, an Armenian genocide will begin at least against the people of Nagorno-Karabakh? And that is not an exaggeration. But why is it important for Turkey to continue its policy of genocide? Because the Armenians of the South Caucasus are the last obstacle to Turkey's expansion to the north and east. And if we look at this situation in the context of Turkey's policy in the Mediterranean region regarding Greece, Cyprus, the policy Turkey is conducting in Iraq, Syria, the picture becomes clearer. This is imperial policy that threatens not only Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh but also many countries that are quite far from here.

RBK: I would like to summarize: Am I understanding correctly that a negotiation process towards the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Azerbaijan is only possible if terrorist units are removed from Azerbaijani territory along the contact line?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Negotiations are a completely different topic since there is the OSCE Minsk Group cochairmanship, which includes Russia, the United States, and France. And they (these countries - RBK) are working towards restoring the negotiation process. They have made a statement regarding the situation, announcing that it is necessary to stop violence and fighting and military operations. Armenia welcomed that statement. In any case, the opportunity to negotiate and the possibility of the negotiation process is certainly important. And we highly value the efforts of the co-chairmen of the OSCE Minsk Group, and we will, of course, be as constructive as possible in working with the co-chairs, as far as possible.

RBK: The negotiation process has been ongoing for more than 25 years. As we can see, it has brought nothing. And Stepanakert has been under continuous gunfire for the seventh day. What needs to happen for Yerevan to recognize the independence of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: We have discussed this and stated that there is such a question on our agenda. But this is not the situation in which it is possible to explain very specifically or plan very specifically that if this or that happens, it will lead to that. Right now the situation is such that we are discussing several options for our actions. But there is also this subtlety: we are doing everything to remain maximally constructive even in the worst-case scenario, and first and foremost in our relations with the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group.

RBK: Have the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group or your CSTO allies asked you not to recognize Nagorno-Karabakh?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No. There has been no such request. I will candidly tell you - since we announced that we are discussing that issue, no one has asked us not to do that. That has not happened.

RBK: But why don’t you accept it? Because that would mean the end of the negotiations?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: That would not mean the end of the negotiations. It will depend on the specific situation regarding how and when that decision will or will not be made.

RBK: But now are you closer to recognizing Nagorno-Karabakh than you were at the beginning of the week?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I have already said that this issue is on our agenda. But that does not mean that we will necessarily make such a decision. It does not mean we will not make such a decision. We are discussing.

RBK: Please clarify your stance on peacekeepers. Are you in favor of deploying peacekeepers along the contact line?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: You know, it is not right to take such a large issue as the Nagorno-Karabakh question and discuss its individual details, potential solutions. Everything here should be viewed in the chain of cause and effect.

RBK: But in that case, it only leaves the war if no alternative solutions are found—whether that be recognition of the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh, deployment of peacekeepers, ceding of territories, or other methods.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: All questions should be discussed in the negotiation process, which should take place under the auspices of the OSCE Minsk Group.

RBK: Do you think that the negotiation process will only begin when Azerbaijan is weakened enough to want to return to negotiations?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If we look at this issue broadly, the negotiation process is ongoing even now. Our minister is in constant contact with the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group. I know that the co-chairs are also maintaining contact with the Azerbaijanis. In other words, that conversation is ongoing, and the negotiation process has never stopped and does not stop. But, of course, in this situation, it is impossible to discuss the details of conflict resolution. Right now, a war is taking place, and the main question is how to stop the war.

RBK: But during all this military action, has there been any communication between Yerevan and Baku?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, not at all.