Our Soldiers Are Still Held Hostage in Azerbaijan and Have Not Been Returned: Armen Sarkissian's Interview with Asia Times

Asia Times has published the second part of an exclusive interview with Armenian President Armen Sarkissian. This was reported by the Office of the President of Armenia. The Office released the Armenian translation of the interview.

Kurush Zibari – Let's return to the tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Do you agree with the commentary that the ongoing conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan has a religious element? Just as Armenia condemns the desecration of churches in the Republic of Artsakh by Azerbaijan, Azerbaijani President has expressed discontent that Armenia has destroyed at least “70 mosques” in the disputed areas. Describing what is happening in Syria and Afghanistan, or expressing the thought that Turkey has brought in mercenaries from Syria to fight for Azerbaijan, you have used the term “Islamic terrorism” several times. Isn't it concerning to you that such rhetoric will increase the rift between Armenia and the Muslim world and alienate Armenia's small Muslim community?

President Sarkissian – I believe that the use of the term “Islamist terrorist” by Armenian officials in many cases simply reflects reality. A terrorist remains a terrorist, regardless of what faith he adheres to. However, this phenomenon comes from the Syrian war, and Turkey brought them from Syria. It is more related to their motives than Armenia's approach. They are individuals who have religious motives or are in religious warfare because they are getting paid, as they are mercenaries. I do not at all agree that the Nagorno-Karabakh war or conflict has ever had religious elements. Firstly, there are only a few mosques, while Armenian churches are numerous. I personally welcomed the complete restoration of the mosque in Shushi, which was finally completed with the support of both Armenians and Muslims. It has been fully restored. I have been there; professionals, architects were involved in advising how to restore it correctly. It is a beautiful mosque. If the Azerbaijanis restore even one church, please send me a picture.

This is not a religious war. 70 mosques were destroyed? I do not know; I hear that from you. You need to be very specific. In the case of Armenian churches, everything is very specific. Those churches are where they have been for hundreds and thousands of years. We clearly know which ones have been destroyed. Unfortunately, we have specialized in recording the destruction of Armenian churches, heritage, and culture, primarily in the Ottoman Empire, in Turkey. Hundreds of ancient churches have been turned into mosques; there are numerous historical evidence. And if you want to compare the treatment, you can ask whether you encounter Armenians who complain that Armenian churches have been destroyed in Iran. Have you heard such a thing? No, I have not heard such a thing either. And it is a fact that throughout history, regimes, and governments have changed in Iran, but Armenian communities have flourished for the most part, and the Islamic Republic of Iran has spent money on restoring Armenian churches. I can give examples. Before becoming president, I was in Tehran several times. In the center of Tehran, there is a huge space called the “Ararat” club. When you go there, it seems like you are in Armenia. Everything is there—basketball and football fields; Armenian boys and girls train together.

There is a large tolerance from the leadership of the Islamic Republic towards Armenian culture. There are many Armenian churches everywhere in Iran. I am not talking only about Isfahan and Rasht. Why do we not complain that Iran is destroying Armenian culture? Because it is not doing that. In fact, it supports it while being an Islamic republic, while Turkey is not an Islamic republic, and even Azerbaijan has not declared that they are an Islamic republic. However, the Islamic Republic of Iran is tolerant towards our culture, our religion, our beliefs. If anyone speaks of destructions, let them consider it based on Iran's example. This war was not religious and could not be.

Armenia has excellent relations with many countries that are Islamic states or where the majority of the population is Muslim.

Kurush Zibari – I would just like to deviate a bit and clarify the following: You mentioned that the crisis in Syria and terrorism that came from there were religiously motivated. Similarly, can we say that, for example, we have Jewish terrorism reflecting what Israel carried out against the Palestinians? Can we use the term Christian terrorism to point to the Ku Klux Klan? We have never used such formulations.

President Sarkissian – I think you actually deviated. I have a term called quantum, saying that this world has become quantum, and you can deviate from one place to another, losing the logical trace. But you have raised a question that is completely quantum; to answer which would probably take hours. Let me not respond to that question. What I said in the case of Syria, even Iran has accepted that there are many groups in Syria that not only I but others also call Islamic terrorists. Turkey brought in mercenaries—people who kill for money; they can be Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or adhere to any other religion. It does not matter because what they do is wrong. Killing people because they differ is unacceptable for both Christianity and Islam. I have read the Quran several times and found nothing that says you should kill those who differ for money. I have not seen anything like that. Maybe you have seen some and can show me if you know.

Kurush Zibari – You are right.

President Sarkissian – Respecting the religion and culture of others is very important to me.

Kurush Zibari – Let's turn to foreign policy. I know that you have recognized President Joe Biden of the United States for a considerable period, and that the US president recognized the Armenian Genocide of 1915 this April—unlike many previous US presidents who sidestepped their positions on recognition. Do you expect a transition to a new level in bilateral relations with Washington? Are there any new developments in Yerevan-Washington relations that deserve attention?

President Sarkissian – I think that the recognition of the Armenian Genocide is very important for my nation and for the international community. There is no need to explain why. It is important for them to understand that a wrong thing has happened. A wrong thing has happened to the ancestors of the people who are now citizens of France, Russia, the USA, Argentina, Lebanon, and other countries. If you do not recognize genocides, they continue. How can one say that there was no genocide in Rwanda? You must acknowledge that there was a genocide, then think about how you can simply live with it and change its consequences. I am very happy to hear that Rwanda is now a very active and successful state. They are modern; they have invested in information technology, and that is wonderful because they have also gone through hell. The same has happened with the Armenians. Many countries have recognized the Armenian Genocide. The United States and the President of the United States making that recognition is an important step. However, is that historical justice? It is important for Armenians living in America, for Armenians around the world, but I think it is also important for Americans. They are acknowledging something that was wrong. By recognizing the wrong, at least you are trying to prevent the next one. Regarding Armenian-American relations—diplomatic, political, and other areas, they should be viewed not only historically but also from the current, pragmatic perspective of real politics. And in real politics, we can see the process of restructuring Caucasus, and there may also be a process of restructuring Central Asia as well. Today’s Caspian region is not the same as it was 30 or 25 years ago. For Armenia, at that time, there was an opportunity to be part in the restructuring process of the Caucasus along a different path. Will Azerbaijan be clever enough to turn their victory into sustainable peace? When you are the winning side, you have an advantage; you can also make compromises because the victory is yours. You must be wise enough to understand that by making compromises, you can create relationships that will last much longer. We live, as I said, in a quantum world, and everything is changing very quickly and unexpectedly. We have a neighbor like Turkey, and it is hard to predict what their next step will be.

Kurush Zibari – Let's also turn to Iran-Armenia relations. You have certainly heard about the recent border tensions between Iran and Azerbaijan. The Baku government is charging significant fees on Iranian trucks entering Armenia via the Goris-Kapan road, which is essentially cutting Iran off from Armenia. What do you think this Azerbaijani program will have a negative impact on your trade relations with Iran? How do you assess Iran-Armenia relations in political, economic, financial, scientific, and cultural areas?

President Sarkissian – It is unnecessary to prove that the relations between Armenia and Iran are vital and advantageous for Armenia. Iran has been our trusted neighbor for many years. Many of our western friends also agree that they can have disagreements and tensions with Iran, but Iran-Armenia relations develop on a different level. It is very important that our relations in the trade-economic, political, or cultural arenas are deep and effective. History shows that we can trust Iran and have long-lasting relations both as a state and as a nation. I have already referred to my visit to Tehran. It is a young and vibrant country with young people and students very interested in what is happening in the world. I visited an Armenian church in Isfahan, saw the library, learned that the Iranian government has significantly supported the preservation of that heritage. All of this, of course, lays the groundwork for developing positive relations between Iran and Armenia. We all have differences. Your relationships with other countries are as complicated as our relationships with other countries. However, at the bilateral level, Iran needs a strong, stable Armenia, and Armenia needs good relations with Iran.

Kurush Zibari – How would you comment on the recent border tensions between Iran and Azerbaijan and the potential consequences of that on Iran-Armenia trade relations?

President Sarkissian – The reality is that the Azerbaijani side is still trying to use its military power or the position of the winner to impose and play that game even before the delimitation process. As you know, our soldiers are still held hostage in Azerbaijan and have not been returned. Meanwhile, according to all humanitarian values, the exchange of all prisoners should take place after wars, as was the case during this and the 1994 wars when Armenia returned all Azerbaijani captives. There are still many names whose fates are unknown; many families do not know whether their children, sons are alive or not. There are border-related issues; there are also issues regarding trade with Iran.

Kurush Zibari – I would like you to address the COVID-19 pandemic and its implications for Armenia. In 2020, Armenia's GDP decreased by 7.6%, whereas a year before it had grown to 7.6% following 5.2% growth in 2018. What do you think about the economic response program approved by the government in February alongside external support, including the European Union's €92 million? Will it contribute to a rapid recovery? Specifically, what is your vision for the tourism sector, which was among the most affected sectors?

President Sarkissian – Briefly responding, I would say that we have not yet overcome the consequences of the war and COVID-19. We greatly value the support of all our friends. The European Union also announced assistance to Armenia amounting to €2.6 billion in the coming years.

Kurush Zibari – Is this a new development?

President Sarkissian – No. The President of the European Council Charles Michel was here. That is significant support. The question is how well we can use that funding together with our European partners for the country's development. We have good friends in many countries. I have been on a state visit to Italy, and the Italian government has promised to support Armenia by providing a significant amount of vaccines. This also answers your previous question regarding vaccinations and COVID-19. Russia, as a special partner and friend, is providing significant support to Armenia. We are small, but we have our advantages. We are a small country, but a global nation.

Probably as many Armenians live in Russia as in Armenia or America. When you have a small state, you need to work effectively and you will be successful. In many respects, the small can be efficient and beautiful. It is not a huge empire that is difficult to manage. Everything depends on how smart we are and how disciplined we are to be. The question is how effective we are in using our strength. Azerbaijan has utilized its strength very effectively over the past 26 years—oil. Our strength is our Diaspora. But how effectively are we utilizing it? To be honest, we are still not doing that. We still need to learn how to bring back talents, their experiences, knowledge, and Armenian money from abroad to Armenia. The moment we learn that, we will indeed be successful.

Kurush Zibari – My last question concerns the same topic you mentioned: I want to talk about the relationship between Armenia and the Diaspora, a Diaspora composed of 7-10 million individuals spread across about 100 countries worldwide. How is Armenia utilizing the potential and investments of the Armenian Diaspora? Are they helping to boost the country’s economic development?

President Sarkissian – They are helping Armenia, but that assistance is more emotional. Their experience is very high quality. They are everywhere, and the Diaspora could help Armenia much more, but for that, we need to make some changes—again, changing the Constitution. Do you know that according to our Constitution, a diasporic Armenian cannot be a minister in Armenia? I think that is a huge, very significant mistake. For instance, a great Armenian scientist or an IT specialist who has earned billions of dollars cannot become the Minister of Science in Armenia. He must return his American passport, have only a Armenian passport, and live only in Armenia for four years to be able to think about the opportunity to become a minister. In the 21st century, people are building empires in a year. If you are not in Silicon Valley for four years, then you are out and no longer of value. We need a law that will allow selecting someone today and making them a minister tomorrow. You see that they know how to move forward. In America, there are two vaccines: Pfizer and Moderna. Do you know who created one of them? It is Nubar Afeyan, who founded the Flagship Pioneering venture fund that created Moderna. However, he, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, cannot be the Minister of Education and Science in our country. For him to do so, he must have lived in Armenia for the last four years. At that point, who would have created Moderna? In fact, more than 10 million Armenians live abroad. The ones you mentioned include those who are involved in Armenian communities. However, there are many Armenians who are not included in that list. I have a long list of such people, and we do not utilize those talents. In this building (Presidential residence), we held a conference dedicated to the 100th anniversary of someone's birth, whose surname is Kemurjian. Do you know who he is?

Kurush Zibari – No.

President Sarkissian – Of course, you don’t. There are many Armenians who 90% of our compatriots do not know about. Do you remember the lunar rover? The lunar rover that was sent to the Moon first by the Soviet Union and then by the USA?

Kurush Zibari – Yes, of course.

President Sarkissian – In reality, you remember the American astronauts, the lunar rover developers. Then the Soviet Union sent its Mars rover, and then the Americans did it. It was Mr. Kemurjian who created it. The first lunar rover of the Soviet Union was created by Kemurjian. NASA asked him to help them because they could not do it! He has been one of history's greatest engineers in robotics. And he was Armenian. Now in St. Petersburg, there is a huge institute named after him. Such individuals exist everywhere, but we do not utilize that. We are like any Persian Gulf country that has decided not to utilize its oil. What is the result? A desert. Armenians still need to learn how to use the power of our Diaspora. And I am putting in great efforts for that because it is one of the ways. People truly do not understand how powerful the Diaspora is because it has never been utilized. We have much work to do, and one of those things is changing the Constitution.