VIDEO: Every day of the continued war will lead to frustration for the Azerbaijani public, says Prime Minister to Al Jazeera

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan gave an interview to Al Jazeera. The text of the interview is presented below.

Al Jazeera: Hello. Our guest today on this special broadcast is the Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia, Nikol Pashinyan. Mr. Prime Minister, we welcome you and thank you for having us.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I thank you.

Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, could you please explain the official relations between Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: First of all, I want to state that Armenians have lived in Nagorno-Karabakh for millennia, and the Armenian population in the autonomous region of Nagorno-Karabakh has always constituted 80 percent or more. I also want to note that there is a huge cultural heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh—churches and other structures dating back to the 5th century. The first Armenian school was established precisely in Nagorno-Karabakh. Our relationship is not about land but about the people who live, have lived, and must live in Karabakh.

In 1988, the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh tried to restore their rights in the context of the democratization processes within the Soviet Union. We are talking about the following right: when the Soviet Union was established, Nagorno-Karabakh, which had an 80 percent Armenian population, was not included in Soviet Armenia but in Soviet Azerbaijan due to Stalin's arbitrary decision. And when democratization processes began in the Soviet Union, the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh attempted to peacefully restore their rights and reunite with the Republic of Armenia, to which the Soviet Union and Azerbaijan responded with violence against the people. And I mean that our relations are with people, the people who have lived, are living, and must live in Karabakh.

Al Jazeera: How can we present Nagorno-Karabakh? For example, when I go to Karabakh from Armenia, where am I going?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Nagorno-Karabakh declared its independence later, and we call it the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh or Artsakh, where there is an elected president and a parliament, and there are state governing bodies. It is not considered part of the Republic of Armenia. The Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh is a declared state that, unfortunately, has not yet received international recognition.

Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, you spoke about the historical aspect. Azerbaijan also presents documents claiming the land belongs to them. If we talk about international law, what do you say about the UN Security Council resolutions?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I want to draw attention to the following fact: based on how Azerbaijan interprets international law, we can say that Azerbaijan is part of the Soviet Union, and such an independent state does not exist. But you can say that the Soviet Union no longer exists for Azerbaijan to be part of that Soviet Union. Similarly, Soviet Azerbaijan no longer exists for the autonomous region of Nagorno-Karabakh to be part of Azerbaijan. As for the UN Security Council resolutions, they were accepted in a specific situation, describing a specific situation, detailing clashes between the self-defense forces of Nagorno-Karabakh and the armed forces of Azerbaijan and their outcomes. The narrative described in the Security Council also has a very important context. I’ve already said that Azerbaijan has responded with violent force to absolutely peaceful political struggles, just as today, by bombing civilian settlements.

To eliminate the bombardments of these peaceful settlements, the self-defense forces of Nagorno-Karabakh were forced to create a security zone.

Al Jazeera: When military operations began, you stated that Armenia might recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh unilaterally. What could this change now?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: This issue has been on our agenda and remains on our agenda. However, it is not so important for the Republic of Armenia to recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh. Because the Republic of Armenia can do this whenever it likes. What is important is that representatives of the international community recognize it. Today we believe that this issue is even more urgent, considering the humanitarian disaster situation that Nagorno-Karabakh is in, considering the undeniable fact that being part of Azerbaijan means Nagorno-Karabakh without Armenians, which signifies ethnic cleansing, we believe that "secession for salvation" should be applied in this case, and the international community should recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Al Jazeera: You spoke about ethnic cleansing. Azerbaijan accuses you of changing the identity of Karabakh, destroying graveyards, mosques, and changing the name, calling it Artsakh.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No graveyards have been destroyed. Recently, a mosque was renovated in Shushi, Nagorno-Karabakh, with the highest modern technologies. And the authorities of Nagorno-Karabakh pay special attention to mosques. If you go to Shushi, you will see a restored magnificent mosque, if of course, it hasn’t been bombed by the Azerbaijanis. Why do I say this? Because the Holy Ghazanchetsots Church of Shushi, which is an Armenian church, came under targeted missile attacks and is now in a semi-dilapidated state.

Al Jazeera: I have already visited Shushi, I have seen the mosque and filmed it. Azerbaijan accuses you of having rebuilt and changed the identity of the mosque, not in a religious but in a historical sense. According to Azerbaijan, it had its historical identity.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I know that the mosque was restored under the supervision of Shia clergy and specialists. And it couldn’t have been otherwise. In other words, it was restored under the supervision of Muslim clergy, theologians, and specialists, with their advice and projects.

Al Jazeera: Were there Azerbaijanis involved?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I am saying once again, all of this happened under the supervision of specialists. Those specialists were not from Armenia and Karabakh; they were from abroad. I cannot say that there were Azerbaijanis. But as far as I know—my knowledge in this area is not very vast, unfortunately—that is a Shia mosque, and Shia clerics and specialists guided our benefactors to involve specialists and carry out that restoration.

Al Jazeera: Three ceasefires have already been declared in Nagorno-Karabakh. Why does it fail each time?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Because Azerbaijan violates that ceasefire. Because both Azerbaijan and Turkey essentially declare that they do not intend to stop military operations. If we follow the public statements, it will become clear what is the reason for their failure to stop military operations. Because when we register the facts—a significant and now internationally recognized fact, for instance, that Turkey has transported mercenaries and terrorists from Syria to Azerbaijan to initiate an attack against Nagorno-Karabakh. And terrorists are not transferred to regions for peace or ceasefire. Terrorists and mercenaries are moved for war.

Al Jazeera: Azerbaijan's President Aliyev stated that you have not provided any evidence that there are mercenaries in the conflict zone.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Right now, the internet is flooded with such evidence, with videos. Moreover, you know that videos taken with mobile phones allow certain programs to specify their geolocation, to determine where it occurred. And we see that terrorists have filmed their actions after their terrorist acts. Those recordings appeared on the internet, and with that geolocation, we are able to prove and locate where those recordings took place. And we have provided multiple pieces of evidence. But even before our presentation, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Russian Federation, France, and also the United States have officially recognized and accepted that mercenaries and terrorists operate in the conflict zone of Nagorno-Karabakh. I believe that this topic now holds the status of an internationally established fact, and that says it all.

Al Jazeera: After coming to power, you took a strong stance and stated that we must work to find a solution acceptable to the people of Armenia, the people of Nagorno-Karabakh, and the people of Azerbaijan. Do you think it is possible to reach a solution through negotiations that would also be acceptable to the people of Azerbaijan?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, I have suggested that formula. I have stated that we must find a solution for Nagorno-Karabakh that would be acceptable to the people of Armenia, the people of Karabakh, and the people of Azerbaijan. And yes, I am the first leader involved in the negotiations who is saying that any solution to the issue must also be acceptable to the other side. But why did we not advance down that road? Because the President of Azerbaijan refused to adopt that same formula. Because they based their reasoning on the notion that any solution to the issue must only be acceptable to the people of Azerbaijan. This position has led to this situation.

Al Jazeera: You said you are ready for painful compromises. What does that entail?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I said two days ago (on October 26) that Armenia is indeed ready for compromises. Compromise is always painful. But that's the whole issue—what does compromise mean? Compromise means a willingness to retreat somewhat from your established benchmark, in other words, a willingness to lower your established benchmark. The whole problem is that when Armenia agrees to lower that benchmark to create an acceptable field, this new benchmark already becomes unacceptable for Azerbaijan, and they demand more.

Al Jazeera: What benchmark do you refer to?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Moreover, this is not a new issue; this has been a long-standing continuous political process. I can give you the following example: what happened in Kazan in 2011, I believe, shows my mentioned example best. I have already said that the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh declared its independence. And, in fact, this is the benchmark that the Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians and the Armenian people place. In 2011, the then-authorities of Armenia agreed to cede territories to Azerbaijan. And in the context of that agreement, Nagorno-Karabakh would receive an interim status, so that later, after the return of Nagorno-Karabakh, including refugees, a referendum would take place and the final status of Nagorno-Karabakh would be decided.

Al Jazeera: You speak of the return of refugees—only from Azerbaijan, or from Armenia as well?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: We are talking about the return of refugees to the autonomous region of Nagorno-Karabakh and the conflict zone as a whole. And this is quite a serious lowering of the benchmark. As a result of this lowering of the benchmark, a document was formed that was essentially already agreed upon by Armenia, Azerbaijan, Russia, and the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group. But Azerbaijan refused to accept this document at the last minute. And this process shows why the issue has not been resolved. Because every time the Armenian side demonstrates some flexibility and even makes a slight concession from its positions, this already becomes unacceptable to Azerbaijan.

Al Jazeera: Regarding Russia's position, President Putin has stated that he will not be on either side. What do you say?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Russia is a co-chairing country of the OSCE Minsk Group—an intermediary country, and by its status must maintain certain neutrality. And that is understandable.

Al Jazeera: In Armenia, assessments are being voiced that since you came to power, Russia's ties, which were previously closer and allied with Armenia, have weakened, that you have leaned more towards the West, and that this has changed the situation. How do you respond to that accusation?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: You know, that is an absurd accusation. Because Russia has remained Armenia's strategic ally as it has been and continues to be Armenia's strategic ally. In terms of being Armenia's strategic ally, Russia does not have neutrality. Russian authorities and President Putin have repeatedly stated that if necessary, Russia will fulfill its security obligations towards the Republic of Armenia.

As for the Karabakh issue, I have already said since the formation of the Minsk Group, Russia has been a co-chairing country, an intermediary country, and thus has an obligation to maintain certain neutrality. And that status has not changed until now.

Al Jazeera: What relationship do you have with the West? Since the beginning of hostilities, you have not spoken with the U.S. president. Do you think that indicates something?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I have had conversations and am in constant contact with the President of France, the U.S. Secretary of State, and the U.S. President's National Security Advisor. Throughout this time, we are working to present the essence of what is happening to the international community. And the essence of what is happening is as follows, and we must confidently state that without Turkey's provocation, this war would not have begun and would not have occurred. And I wish to once again state that Turkey, based on already internationally accepted facts, has hired and transferred mercenaries and terrorists to the conflict zone. Senior Turkish military personnel are involved in the war against Karabakh, and Turkish military and equipment are engaged in the war against Karabakh, and I want to emphasize that this is not a coincidence. This, in my assessment, is an expression of Turkey's imperial policy, and we see Turkey's policy. We see what Turkey's policy is in Syria, Iraq, the Mediterranean, and the South Caucasus. Turkey is pursuing a policy of restoring the Ottoman Empire. And I have no doubt that the expansion Turkey is trying to undertake towards the Mediterranean, South Caucasus, Syria, Iraq, and the entire Arab world is viewed by Turkey as a potential subject of the Ottoman Empire.

I have no doubt that if the international community, including Europe and the Arab world, does not appropriately assess this situation and does not respond effectively to this situation, we will witness Turkey's expansionist policy toward the south.

And I am pleased that there are many Arab countries that are accurately assessing the geopolitical situation and are taking necessary political preventive and strategic preventive steps.

Al Jazeera: Azerbaijan claims that you are losing land. Can you recover that land or not?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yesterday (October 27), I delivered a message and said the following: essentially, unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh is now fighting against international terrorists, Azerbaijan, Turkey's air force, and special forces. According to some reports, there are also special forces from Pakistan participating in that fight. And it is clear that that attack aimed to blitzkrieg and quickly take Nagorno-Karabakh. But this unrecognized small republic continues to resist against tremendous international force to this day. And every day the war continues brings frustration and will bring frustration to Azerbaijan and the Azerbaijani public. Because what you mention is that Azerbaijani authorities have fed their public with so much victorious information that they have been waiting day by day for the war to finally end with their ultimate victory. And they are waiting for that news. I want to say that they will not receive that news; they will not receive that news. And they will increasingly find themselves deeper until they recognize the legitimate right of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh to self-determination, and until we all sincerely strive for diplomatic solutions in a constructive field.

Al Jazeera: Regarding transparency about the information on military operations. There are maps showing what Azerbaijan has taken control of. To what extent are you transparent in this regard?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: We have provided our public with maps, and we give our public the necessary information. Our public is informed about everything. I cannot say the same; I am not sure about the case with the Azerbaijani public.

Al Jazeera: Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for the interview.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I thank you.